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Кемал Карпат |
Руските войски и български шайки избили 300 000 турци мюсюлмани, а били готови да отнемат живота на още един милион от тях през 1877-1878 г. Това твърди турският историк Кемал Карпат в обширно интервю за в. "Милиет", предаде електронното издание "Хабер 27".
По думите му по време на Руско-турската освободителна война християнското население в България не било по-многобройно от мюсюлманското. За да се създаде национална държава на българите обаче, те трябвало да станат мнозинство. Ето защо руснаците погубили 300 000 турски мюсюлмани с помощта на български банди, обяснява Карпат.
По думите му Берлинският конгрес от 1878 г. е "началото на всичко", което тогава предстояло да се случи с арменците. Статистиката за тях в източните райони на Мала Азия изобщо не била вярна, тъй като по признание на собствените им религиозни водачи в някои райони те били преброявани два пъти, заявява турският историк. Твърденията за геноцид през Първата световна война не отговарят на истината и ставало дума за 100-200 хиляди убити арменци.
Карпат е автор на над 20 научни труда и преподава история в Университета на Уисконсин - Медисън. Роден е в гр. Меджидия, днес в Северна Добруджа, Румъния, като по потекло е кримски татарин.
сега / Портал Турция
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World famous Turkish historian Kemal Karpat in the event in 1915 killed 1.5 million Armenian's claims from the British archives with a document that has been denied.
02 Haziran 2009 Salı 09:33
The population of 2.5 million Armenians in that period is not 1 million 400 thousand indicating Karpat, in some places twice a tally of the Armenian patriarch is said to admit. 1915 Russian invasion of eastern Anatolia, is expressed in a million Armenians at the time of the Karpat with the Russian army retreated said. Here is the talk of the Milliyet newspaper said Karpat'ın ...
- You Is 1915 the date for the commission would be useful to establish, or to resolve these issues is primarily the job of politicians?
I think is very useful and necessary. I glance in the Armenian matter "third way" is also domineering. And perhaps the results may play a role in taking the first degree.
- What care?
This matter was reviewed according to the record date for a strong man I am. When the Armenian matter was born? 1877-Ottoman territories that today 78'de the Russian army entered Bulgaria, the Bulgarians are the majority there wanted to create a nation. Because in a way, Bulgaria was to be the leader in Russia's Balkans. But the Christian population of Bulgaria at that time was not more than Muslims. To set up a Bulgarian national state had to create a Bulgarian majority. For this purpose, the Russian army and the Bulgarian gang killed 300 thousand Turkish Muslims, also over a million people it was up to. Thus, from the Balkans to Anatolia, the Turkish invasion has begun the largest Muslim 1878'den ...
- Armenian issue from the Balkans to illustrate why did you start?
Now there will come: So, in July 1878 in Berlin Congress met, and that Congress decided to create autonomous Bulgaria was one. Moreover, Serbia, Romania, Montenegro istiklâlini won, Bosnia-Herzegovina was occupied by Austria, Batum and Ardahan-Kars was left to the Russians. Now for the fall semester began Ottomans.
Here on this date, the Armenian nationalists to create a nation, so it is possible to set up a country self-saw. A memorandum sent immediately to the Berlin congress. The pen area, then the Memorandum of the Armenian church leader, "two and a half million Armenians in Anatolia, there is. Istiklal they want to. We give the freedom, self-Armenia are established," he said.
- Two and a half million Armenians by Ottoman 1878'den Did it?
The future there, I do not hurry. As we always want to come to the end would just work, but everything is a stream. (Accept on behalf of this little impatient to listen to all the brush we're the same) so that the Berlin agreement amended Article 61 and the Armenian 16'ıncı the Eastern Anatolia region of living kesif decided to make the reforms. Responsibility to oversee these reforms were undertaken in the UK. This is very important, let's underline: Armenian reform tracking England job.
ALL START in the Berlin Congress
- What caused this agreement?
Muslims have lived very well in Berlin before muahede Ermeniler, suddenly became an issue to the political. Until that day, only the cultural, social, economic, political become an issue now that the Armenians. Treaty of Berlin in 1878 was the beginning of everything.
- England was the first what?
Population in the whole issue is focused on self-determination for the United Kingdom immediately to determine the Armenian population has been directed. However, in the UK has a huge internal change. 1880 elections and return to a Jewish man with the Ottomans went to Benjamin Disraeli, the so-called liberal, but actually see the little dark one Protestant and Islam in the UK in the case of the pioneers who came to Gladstone. Envoy in the Ottoman Gladstone'un first job was to give Goschen'e instructions, "Go now, to engage in reform of the East region," he said.
But of course this was not so easy. Because the Ottoman government was not Goschen'in bitaraf, will work against the Ottomans would balk at the thought. He was much tension in the 1881-82'de England Adriatic coast, that the present war ships sent to Albania.
- This is what the intent of reform, autonomy?
Non-Muslim cultural and economic autonomy for more than was already available since Osmanli'da. Their own schools are established, the president wants to choose their own church, that church is the head of the society, government-government does not mix her, etc., that already had autonomy. Now you have the administrative autonomy. Oldukları where an Armenian majority, or at least with the Armenian side was to appoint a governor.
Patriarch in some places was up two times
- As well as in Bulgaria?
Of course, Berlin was muahede the autonomous Bulgaria, Bulgaria, 30 years after it was declared istiklâlini. Because the autonomy to political freedom, was the first step in the road to separation. This was not a recipe. Britain's trying to do now that it was.
- So what happened then was able to make the census a Goschen?
Now there will come, but excuse me, I have written them. Published by Tarih Vakfı "Ottoman population of" all the numbers in my book, available record. But I get no orator. Because we do not go to the Turks to sit down and study something, get a general idea in a trice and many are used to run ideas by him. Maybe I'm a little hard to talk, do not look at my fault, through my whole life but I work on the basis of facts I have foreseen. He could not hold on to Turkey, go to the West and there are achievements made through this method. (Brush Session-2. But we do not have any objection, to question what is true? Especially the 85-year-old says a wave ...)
Let us now come to the question of reforms. To the British consulate in East Goschen "Two and a half million claims to what extent the right, search" gave instructions. That period in Erzurum, Van, the British consul in Trabzon had very knowledgeable. They prepared a report and sent to Istanbul. They say that "the Armenian population of more than 1 million 400 thousand." Big natural wonder Sefir. Difference in more than a million. This time in England itself the Armenian patriarch asks, "Why this difference?" Armenian patriarchs have the letter there, says, "Because we in the Armenian population in some places were counted twice. For example, in the provinces of Sivas that the Armenians in the Erzurum province say the Armenians were looking into. Furthermore, we also nomadic Muslims did not count, only the resident population were considered."
To acknowledge Armenian migration of a million
- This correspondence is a known thing?
No, it is not known to be among them.
- Did you get?
I have received from the diplomatic correspondence in the British archives. And the Armenian people for serious scholars of ekseri this summer I did not no objection. However, not announced, but I find the documentation by the other six provinces of Sultan Abdülhamit also have to count on. He has reached the figure of one million 200 thousand. Almost confirms British.
- So what is it that to one million 400 thousand Armenians?
Some were victims of an assault on the road during Tehcir. This for sure. By Kurds and Turks, were sometimes killed by gendarmes. Migration was also a part.
- How much part?
The 1915 Russian invasion of eastern Anatolia, the deportation was in gold. However, the Bolshevik revolution of 1917 because the Russian army took the decision to retreat. In that time, together with the Russian army, under their insurance for the approximately one million Armenians were taken back.
- One million?
Yes, one million Armenians from eastern Anatolia to the north with the Russian army was migration.
- Did a million lives in the 1917?
Lived, and of course this is already the most sensitive point. Personally Armenian historians, even the most nationalists do not accept even this. But neither the "population was two and a half million, a million and a half left to draw a half million Armenians were killed" by saying ...
- Over two and a half million is a matter of telling it that so important?
Of course, because the whole issue turns on this population. However, the total Armenian population of the record, we all know is not a half million. There are a million have migrated, the 100-200 thousand remained in Anatolia, became a Muslim, that is, if this happened ... According to the Armenians in Istanbul is not attached to anyone ...
Turkish Nationalist değilim, BUT THE FACT
- One million Armenians migrated to Russia's south that there is a document that is precisely how much you?
Enough to look at statistics from the Russian population. First available in the Russian population of Yerevan statistics show that 40-50 thousand Armenians. In the 1927 census is more than a million. Most of them in Russia, from Romania or Bulgaria, but the Armenians from Anatolia. But now it seems you shock them. I would look on your face, can not believe, "Wow this guy is fit you, what do say like ...
- Of course not, but trying to understand. For example, the claim that the person holding the notes of Talat Pasha, the 972 thousand the difference before and after Tehcir 246 imiş. But how many of these Armenians have died, many of the migration of information available.
That was, I would migrate to the Turks, and I write to you personally and not tell from the registers of the Armenians. Now we are back in the beginning, you start by asking the commission to have a sual, I gave you a long answer. Maybe you have an answer you do not wait.
- Indeed yes, you read these comments had not previously ...
Because, I continue this through the media ever to enter into discussions in 1915. In this context I am talking the first time since the establishment of a commission to a date to be very care. And I is not new, it said 40 years ago.
- 40 years ago, were also considered such?
Yes, but I fear not seen as a Turkish nationalist historians. I fully an Armenian friend. Armenians as a man I really appreciate it. Indeed, contributions to the Ottoman state, with great ability, culture, prone, left traces everywhere, the name is a nation made the Armenians. I wish we as Turks, their efficient, creative wish. This is not my thing, but facts and reality that is separate.
NOT ONLY 1915, it is necessary to review 150 YEARS
- Give you the number of Armenians who died in 1915, according to the figures 100-200 thousand seems, is not?
But even more than this one and is very painful. I am against killing positively.
- That's not the age of 100-200 thousand people, the genocide in Yugoslavia to eight thousand Muslim's death he says.
Yes ...
- And then the 1948 Geneva Convention defines genocide first time back in 1915 genocide, but enters the process, is not?
No, because it was not a planned action. Armenian nationalists have such a plan to bring water from a stream thousands were trying to prove the untruth of the material used, but always emerged. This proof is not a thing.
- Either way I will die, even to send?
A lot of times a part of the Armenian group safely settled in Syria and Lebanon could. Today a large part of Lebanon's population of Anatolia, Syria's isolation from the rest and the right of the Armenians.
Second, 1878'den hundreds of thousands of Muslim Turks in Rumelia sökülüp destroyed. 400 thousand Muslims in the Balkan war 1912-1913'te killed. The same amount of men were compelled to migrate. However, one and a half million people have been killed in the Caucasus. So that all nations together in the genocide, was a transfer is going well? No, they were fighting in mid-life massacre. Experienced something like a civil war was on the geography and was very painful.
- So you events of 1915 not a year, would be considered to be a period of ...
Yes, I want to understand the 1915 full year to examine the need 150. But then what a great migration and death in the era that we can see in action. If we take it then that this whole against humanity, by anyone, that all dönemki a crime committed by national governments that emerge. Muslims have also been exposed to it, the Greeks, the Armenians also ... Because, unfortunately, in the establishment of national states, there are such bitter stage and has been everywhere in a way. Of course this does not ease any pain, but we can describe that period. I do not argue with it or anybody, my only defense is for real.
HALF TIME HAS CHANGED EVEN LISTENING to AVEDİS'İ
- Armenian issues this opinion on what kind of responses you receive in the United States when you tell?
We give a simple example: I have friends in America is very close to the Armenians. 1962 I met one of them Harvard'dayken the Avedis Sanjiyan'dır. Avedis'le were so friendly that one day his "Ya look, I like your brother talk to you, we're looking hot, you burn the same soil were coming from the same culture were living. Gel community on air again this old friendship my rule. On one side of the Armenians by the Turks About the commission to create among themselves, Let us examine these events in 1915 "said. Was my friend answer me this: "First, to recognize the genocide and then we are friends."
Of course, we were unable to establish a commission, but our friendship continued. Şikago'da after year "in the Ottoman Armenians" I've been invited to a panel titled. There was mention of the Armenians over the Ottoman state. Semitism was not originally an Armenian in Turkey, as a Rumelili all of my childhood passed in Istanbul Armenians Türkçe'sine with envy that you need to see the back of the 1915 event, what the big mistakes is to preconceive told. No one was opposed to talking. Even after one or two Armenians and Americans came to me "What if there was other aspects of this matter, after listening to you on this matter have discovered a new direction," he said. One of them looked the same to me, and I have Avedis says, "Kemal, 20-30 years before you offer it when the commission came up I guess."
- What do you think the Sanjiyan had changed?
I listened for half an hour on this topic. Listen, I did see the 1915 defense of the thesis blindfold Turkish state does not exist. Then he woke up and the idea here is to investigate the facts here with "We can talk," he said.
Commission KARPAT'IN CRITERIA
1 - First, create a commission of Turkish and should be selective Ermeni'lerden. UN and EU observers will also be the actual date that the commission should decide to choose who to commission.
2 - Date commission from each country and each academic area appears related bitaraf members should consist of.
3 - Work should not put time limits, but within a year and a half to finish.
4 - The Commission should not come to any judgments. Just about the development of events should reach consensus. The first issue also figures to be understood.
5 - Turkey is the establishment of such a commission, but in the long run is a success in favor of Armenia. Commission after the politicians can solve.
AN ERROR BAĞ with our good intentions to OSMANLI KES
- President of the Rose, the joint press statement U.S. President Obama'yla "Republic of Turkey was founded on a new generation not to feed the feelings of hate that we lost during that time the Turks did not make the big event," he said.
It is very true. These events in our history books, no place in hatırat does not. As a person who engages in the dates of these events how big it is, I only found out after going to the British archives in Turkey, not reading.
- Why this happened, age did not keep you?
Because the republics to make a new beginning, the old history to one side, to forget old enemies, the demand for land is one of the world purified by opening a page you want to join. Atatürk'ün something that person said, "We would call it old history, we are starting a new life," he. So, I was not mourning.
- Do you have errors?
Yes, I was done with very good intentions, but ultimately was a mistake. Because of events in 1915, has started just because I think everyone know this was why people could not see what happened in 150 years.
- Of course this is not the only good intentions, actually do to get rid of the 1915 crimes that have been said?
Wrong. If you concur with Turkey and Ottoman history Osmanlı'nın connect only 1915 make a very big mistake. During the 500 years of Ottoman and Islamic terror threat has lived in Europe much more comprehensive thinking, the idea is to forget it was a thing, cause it was not ever in 1915.
We like knife cut all ties with the Ottomans of course, than just to see a 1915 from a single angle, but a lot more to the pains caused.
- What to say?
We are in the early days of the republic, how much evil world, if we install them all Ottomans. Our own history that such a cut at the next all the years that we lived disconnection. Because in the end, the regime had changed, but society was still the same.
- Do you think this is still pains?
Finally, the government of the people, people come together with the state entered into a transfer. Now we are in that period. Our first time since the Ottoman administration in our population are knit together. States have come from people and social elitizmi the first time, new leaders are not delivered. Of course, dry Republic, Atatürk democracy on this basis to arrive at this point today, we would never was not possible.
- What do you think that Turkey's ideal point, that's all you'll see see?
No, today's AKP is just the beginning of this new period. Of course, we increasingly need a new leadership team will build. In terms of quality and location of the AKP increased its community better understand the world and the other leaders will be delivered.
- When?
This change does not end immediately, the pains will probably take an additional 15-20 years.
- And how will that 15-20 years is increasing more conservative?
In part of conservatives, some of the return of the old root, so the normal activity in the first place is essential. We were going to live at the end of the most pains, but it will pass. I do not want to predict, but I'm optimistic.
- Now only has a little heads up AKP, you're not saying ...
Throughout my life I always only stopped for one to be from. This is the only feature I am. I already said it does not work I have no party. For example, write a letter to the Prime Minister two years ago, "You have to give confidence to the sector dark Atatürkçü will count. Everyone agrees with you the same not be said, did not respond to genius.
Then he heard the letter was another major newspaper, asked me, but they did not press. In a letter addressed to the Prime Minister because he said again, "Turkey's fate you brought a big change in power at the point. And make this assessment."
But I cling to it as the AKP, "Oh, you're salvation" not saying that just the opposite "Great intellectual skills needed to live at a time, but I have chosen you guys lack the ability. To fulfill this, as Obama's" I say.
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